Climate Change

[The Picnic Wasp]

A family acquaintance is just back from a last minute trip to Dubai as her grandchild's nanny was unexpectedly indisposed over Christmas. I don't know how many times she's been there over the past twelve months. As much as I admire the sight of the A380 overhead and laugh as our daft dog chases it, I wouldn't care if they had to scrap them all and recycle them as wind turbines. Stuff the loss to the economies concerned and to the huge hole being left in people's lives at not being able to selfishly nip to Prague on a stag or hen do. Byres Rd was fine for us in our twenties. At the very least air travel should be rationed to a certain limit of miles per person per year. If you're wealthy enough you could still flout the rules by paying extra tax to fund carbon storage (if that even really works).

When you were in your twenties and making do with Byres Rd for stag do's, many relied on their employment in factories, shops and coal mines to survive. Nowadays many people put food on the table by working in tourism and the travel industry.
And if it is decided that we should limit air travel, let's see that limit initially imposed on celebrities, sports teams, royalty, politicians, David Attenborough, Greta Thunberg, Emma Thompson et al, to set an example.

Great suggestion. I don't really care who it restricts as it really all stems from the artificial, doomed success which surrounds. Nearly all the so-called growth we're exposed to is about to implode in a more violent way than any generation has ever experienced. No matter how much lipstick we apply to this pig as we polish its faecal matter, it can't be sustained. Mankind really doesn't have a clue how bad things are going to get but the warning signals look pretty bad.

[Slim]

If 80% of the Sahara was covered in solar panels, humanity could generate about 170 exajoules of energy every day, even at 20% efficiency. Then there's wind power, wave power, hydropower, geothermal and a few other potential sources.

We've just got to stop digging our energy out of the ground and cooking ourselves.

'Make China great again'

I'm using the "humanity" we there.

[David L]

If 80% of the Sahara was covered in solar panels, humanity could generate about 170 exajoules of energy every day, even at 20% efficiency. Then there's wind power, wave power, hydropower, geothermal and a few other potential sources.

We've just got to stop digging our energy out of the ground and cooking ourselves.

'Make China great again'

I'm using the "humanity" we there.

Of course you are but it's all hypothesis. How many years to reverse China's dominance of the global solar panel industry?  If you're serious, I'm guessing, too many.

[David L]

We've just got to stop digging our energy out of the ground and cooking ourselves.

I agree with that aim and I think most would. However, in the real world the UK's self-flagellation looks increasingly non-sensical.
To compromise people's ability to effectively heat their homes for a reasonable cost seems not to be the way to ensure this aim is met. Make the technology competitive and it will surely be adopted. Green subsidies that result in ever-increasing energy bills is not the way forward IMHO.

[Matt2112]

A family acquaintance is just back from a last minute trip to Dubai as her grandchild's nanny was unexpectedly indisposed over Christmas. I don't know how many times she's been there over the past twelve months. As much as I admire the sight of the A380 overhead and laugh as our daft dog chases it, I wouldn't care if they had to scrap them all and recycle them as wind turbines. Stuff the loss to the economies concerned and to the huge hole being left in people's lives at not being able to selfishly nip to Prague on a stag or hen do.

Wow. There seems to be a huge amount of ire there for something that accounts for about 3% of emissions.  And is taxed up the arse for it - which most folk gladly pay.

Are you aware of the measures to make aviation net zero within three decades? A lot of the funding for that in Europe comes from the €2.25 trillion per annum generated by tourism; but no, let's swipe all that, and the near £250 billion contributed to the U.K. economy, and cause mass penury and dereliction to millions of people in tourist-dependent areas because we should stick it to Prague stag parties?

Maybe stag parties using Amsterdam Schiphol are okay, since that is already a net-zero airport, despite being one of the largest and busiest airports in all of Europe?

I get the impression you think air travellers should somehow pay for their actions and compensate for any "damage" they're perceived to be causing - well, they are doing, in cold, hard levies.

[Slim]

Of course you are but it's all hypothesis. How many years to reverse China's dominance of the global solar panel industry?  If you're serious, I'm guessing, too many.

Oh I see. I thought you meant that if the West were to give up on fossil fuel, we'd be handing an advantage to the Chinese.

The thing is - we don't really have a choice. The stuff is going to get harder and harder to get out of the ground. Even the uranium used for nuclear power is going to run out one day. And for as long as we burn gas and oil, we're edging closer to a climate catastrophe.

We don't have to rely on China for solar technology, we can invest in manufacturing it in the West.

[The Picnic Wasp]

A family acquaintance is just back from a last minute trip to Dubai as her grandchild's nanny was unexpectedly indisposed over Christmas. I don't know how many times she's been there over the past twelve months. As much as I admire the sight of the A380 overhead and laugh as our daft dog chases it, I wouldn't care if they had to scrap them all and recycle them as wind turbines. Stuff the loss to the economies concerned and to the huge hole being left in people's lives at not being able to selfishly nip to Prague on a stag or hen do.

Wow. There seems to be a huge amount of ire there for something that accounts for about 3% of emissions.  And is taxed up the arse for it - which most folk gladly pay.

Are you aware of the measures to make aviation net zero within three decades? A lot of the funding for that in Europe comes from the €2.25 trillion per annum generated by tourism; but no, let's swipe all that, and the near £250 billion contributed to the U.K. economy, and cause mass penury and dereliction to millions of people in tourist-dependent areas because we should stick it to Prague stag parties?

Maybe stag parties using Amsterdam Schiphol are okay, since that is already a net-zero airport, despite being one of the largest and busiest airports in all of Europe?

I get the impression you think air travellers should somehow pay for their actions and compensate for any "damage" they're perceived to be causing - well, they are doing, in cold, hard levies.

Matt, you're clearly a highly intelligent guy and probably more so than me, but I don't believe any of these figures. You're perfectly entitled to think the opposite and lead your life as you see fit. There doesn't seem to be any likelihood that every gramme or millilitre of coal, gas or oil won't be extracted and burned at some stage so we will eventually reach a point where we know the result of our actions. I'm at an age where I shouldn't really care especially as I don't have children but my heart tells me this behaviour and lifestyle is wrong either logically or morally. Every time I burn a log on the wood burner I absolutely know that my conscience isn't clear as I know there isn't really someone out there ensuring every burnt tree is replaced to capture that CO2. The internet, supermarkets and garden centres are full to bursting with firewood. These suppliers are here today, gone tomorrow. It's just a minuscule representation of how commerce works. Find a demand, satisfy it and governments will find a way to massage figures into acceptability. I believe in the actual science, not the sanitized version we get fed. As for ire, I would just replace that word with sorrow.

[David L]

Of course you are but it's all hypothesis. How many years to reverse China's dominance of the global solar panel industry?  If you're serious, I'm guessing, too many.

Oh I see. I thought you meant that if the West were to give up on fossil fuel, we'd be handing an advantage to the Chinese.

The thing is - we don't really have a choice. The stuff is going to get harder and harder to get out of the ground. Even the uranium used for nuclear power is going to run out one day. And for as long as we burn gas and oil, we're edging closer to a climate catastrophe.

We don't have to rely on China for solar technology, we can invest in manufacturing it in the West.

And which government are you going to rely on to do that? 

[pxr5]

Is this the future...

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[pxr5]

And I think we need to rethink our net zero strategy...

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[Slim]

OK so let's say that figure for China is 12 billion tons. Based on the graph the UK figure is about 0.3 tons.

But adjusting for population, the UK figure would be about half the China figure - very roughly.

Worth considering as well that the UK imports loads of stuff made using Chinese energy, so some of the China figure is a sort of UK figure by proxy.

That said - in the end, there's not much we can do in the UK that will have much of an impact so I agree, there's no point hurting ourselves. Not saying we shouldn't do anything but extreme measures are inappropriate.

[Slim]

Get ready for the New Normal.

[David L]

Swiss voters reject green overhaul of the economy:

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-politics/swiss-voters-skeptical-about-ecological-overhaul-of-the-economy/88836726

[Slim]

I think that a wholesale overhaul of energy generation / consumption, at this moment in time, as in "the country would have had to decrease its per capita carbon footprint by over 90%" is just not going to fly anywhere.

[David L]

BP announces a change of strategy after profit performance falls compared to sector rivals. 2025 will now see an increase in fossil fuel production.

When will they learn? Go woke, go broke