Pope Francis

[The Picnic Wasp]

As a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match. My maternal grandfather once suggested to my mother that perhaps my sister and me should adopt his surname rather than our own, to avoid job seeking difficulties as adults. We would then just have to provide different school names to even things up further. We declined his suggestion.

Thankfully England is a much more civilised country  Although in the 1940s my mum chose to attend the local state primary school rather than the local RC Primary as her older siblings used to run the gauntlet of the locals throwing things ranging from fruit to half bricks when they went to school. Funnily enough though, the headmistress of the state school was an Irish Catholic.

And young Matt2112 could still bring about seismic change to the Catholic church as any male baptised a Catholic can be considered for the Papacy. Of course there is the caveat of "within reason" but you never know...

He does have a great command of many compelling words derived from Latin.

[dom]

My mum took to the Catholic church late meaning that I wasn't baptised til I was 7. As a result I didn't go to a Catholic primary school and had to go to catechism classes every Saturday morning - that was a pain.

My faith wained as time went on and although I was married in a Catholic church (Louise is an Irish Catholic) and both kids went to Catholic schools (quite difficult not to in Ireland) I really don't believe any more. You'll only find me in church for funerals and weddings.

Sometimes it's comforting to think  that the people I'm saying goodbye to at those funerals are continuing to exist in some way in celestial light I realise it's pretty far fetched. Would be nice though.

[Slim]

As a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.

Public figures attract derogatory comments all the time; I have no doubt that all of the comments here are sincere, thoughftul expressions of perfectly legitimate opinions. I certainly see my own remarks in that light. It's disingenuous IMO to compare these heartfelt articulations on the part of the rational to graffiti or football chants.

I think the problem is that religious folks expect an exemption from criticism, because they've often had it. Entitlement, in other words. Privilege. In a more enlightened society, the delusional woman I heard on the radio this morning banging on about the eternal love of Christ and salvation would have been interrupted by the presenter with an "excuse me .. that's absolute nonsense".

[The Picnic Wasp]

As a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.

Public figures attract derogatory comments all the time; I have no doubt that all of the comments here are sincere, thoughftul expressions of perfectly legitimate opinions. I certainly see my own remarks in that light. It's disingenuous IMO to compare these heartfelt articulations on the part of the rational to graffiti or football chants.

I think the problem is that religious folks expect an exemption from criticism, because they've often had it. Entitlement, in other words. Privilege. In a more enlightened society, the delusional woman I heard on the radio this morning banging on about the eternal love of Christ and salvation would have been interrupted by the presenter with an "excuse me .. that's absolute nonsense".

I totally respect your views and those of others on here, James, and I am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread. You're also quite correct in stating that certain religious areas are exempt from criticism. I'm probably more prickly than most when the subject arises as I've more been subject to discrimination rather than exemption, but I understand the variables at play (or fault) in my case. Like anyone else of faith I've battled with it internally over the years but I still have a love for it with all its many faults and difficulties. It's a place of solace and support for me and luckily I found just five words in scripture which made an immense difference to me. However, I'll keep those to myself in case Nop reads this.

[Matt2112]

As a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.

Well in those latter cases, they are most likely the acts of those of a different and mutually exclusionary and mutually blasphemous sect of Christianity, where people are being directly attacked, rather than when ideas are robustly scrutinised and criticised regardless of the identity of the holder, as in this thread.

And do you not think it ironic that by far the most derogatory comment in this thread has been lifted straight from the Catholic Church's own catechisms?   

[The Picnic Wasp]

As a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.

Well in those latter cases, they are most likely the acts of those of a different and mutually exclusionary and mutually blasphemous sect of Christianity, where people are being directly attacked, rather than when ideas are robustly scrutinised and criticised regardless of the identity of the holder, as in this thread.

And do you not think it ironic that by far the most derogatory comment in this thread has been lifted straight from the Catholic Church's own catechisms?   

You'd need to enlighten me, Matt. I've never been chapter and verse on catechism. Strangely, it's not an area of the faith I was exposed to greatly, despite attending Catholic primary and sesecondary schools. The latter run by Jesuits.

[Nickslikk2112]

I am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread.

Thanks. I'm sure Pope Francis himself would appreciate a touch of light heartedness. I have no great problem with religion, unless - like Politics - it gets taken too seriously, that's when the trouble starts. As a kid we used to keep away from Catholic converts, they were way too serious.
I also remember down the Irish club they used to call the Bingo numbers in Latin so the Prods couldn't win.

[The Picnic Wasp]

As a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.

Well in those latter cases, they are most likely the acts of those of a different and mutually exclusionary and mutually blasphemous sect of Christianity, where people are being directly attacked, rather than when ideas are robustly scrutinised and criticised regardless of the identity of the holder, as in this thread.

And do you not think it ironic that by far the most derogatory comment in this thread has been lifted straight from the Catholic Church's own catechisms?   

With you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.

[Slim]

I totally respect your views and those of others on here, James, and I am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread. You're also quite correct in stating that certain religious areas are exempt from criticism. I'm probably more prickly than most when the subject arises as I've more been subject to discrimination rather than exemption, but I understand the variables at play (or fault) in my case. Like anyone else of faith I've battled with it internally over the years but I still have a love for it with all its many faults and difficulties. It's a place of solace and support for me and luckily I found just five words in scripture which made an immense difference to me. However, I'll keep those to myself in case Nop reads this.

OK we'll ignore the nonsense about football matches and graffiti, then.

[The Picnic Wasp]

I totally respect your views and those of others on here, James, and I am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread. You're also quite correct in stating that certain religious areas are exempt from criticism. I'm probably more prickly than most when the subject arises as I've more been subject to discrimination rather than exemption, but I understand the variables at play (or fault) in my case. Like anyone else of faith I've battled with it internally over the years but I still have a love for it with all its many faults and difficulties. It's a place of solace and support for me and luckily I found just five words in scripture which made an immense difference to me. However, I'll keep those to myself in case Nop reads this.

OK we'll ignore the nonsense about football matches and graffiti, then.

Well, that's what the Scottish Government, the SFA and UEFA seem to do. Anything about race, gender or sensuality and they're all over it.

Edit: Forgot BBC Scotland.

[Matt2112]

With you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.

Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.

There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.

[The Picnic Wasp]

With you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.

Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.

There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.

Thank you, Matt. Nearly wasted three years there. I've switched my focus to Puppetry Design & Performance. Three years to BA (Hons).

[David L]

With you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.

Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.

There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.

Thank you, Matt. Nearly wasted three years there. I've switched my focus to Puppetry Design & Performance. Three years to BA (Hons).

Time to resurrect Thunderbirds for a new generation

[dom]

With you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.

Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.

There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.

Not sure that astrology can match the art, music or achictecture of theology.  Not so much these days of course but it was the main focus for these disciplines for centuries.

[Matt2112]

Not sure that astrology can match the art, music or achictecture of theology.  Not so much these days of course but it was the main focus for these disciplines for centuries.

I'd call the influence behind great creative and engineering achievements at least in part inspired by religious beliefs as examples of piety as opposed to the related but distinct field of theology, so we may just be differing on a purely semantic point there.