Well, if Catholicism was a videogame, Francis was an endboss. Dying at Easter!
In all seriousness, pumped full with steroids he just about managed his blessing yesterday. All we can hope for now is that they don't choose a Yank next.
Bah! Taken over the TV schedules - no snooker!
Eternal rest grant unto him O Lord,
And let perpetual light shine upon him,
May he rest in peace.
Amen.
Mrs S works at the local Catholic High School as clerk to Governors. The local parish priest told her on good authority that the Pope would be kept alive and his death announced on Ash Wednesday.
Looks like his sources had got the wrong end of the Lenten/Easter period.
Quote from: Thenop on April 21, 2025, 11:10:56 AMIn all seriousness, pumped full with steroids he just about managed his blessing yesterday. All we can hope for now is that they don't choose a Yank next.
What difference will the nationality make? The essential criteria are: 1) it's a man, obviously - can't have a woman in any positions of senior authority now, can we?; 2) he will uphold "catechisms" that, for example, consider homosexuals and their private consensual acts to be "disordered".
Thank "god" I had my apostasy from this hideously turpitudinous organisation at a relatively young age.
Pope Francis was more accepting of homosexuals in the Catholic faith than anyone that proceeded him.
You're right though Matt, be a long time til we see a female or homosexual Pope.
Must watch Conclave now. Been meaning to for a while
Quote from: dom on April 21, 2025, 12:21:43 PMPope Francis was more accepting of homosexuals in the Catholic faith than anyone that proceeded him.
It took until about 2013 for someone "more accepting" to be Pope - impressive! With zero effect whatsoever on the "catechisms" to which he put his name.
Small steps Matt!
He dedicated his whole adulthood to a lie; a lifelong enemy of truth. I find that pathetic, quite honestly.
I loathe Easter for the opportunities it offers for idiots to spout unmitigated superstitious nonsense on the TV and radio, usually completely unchallenged. Today's news has just made it worse.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 11:25:27 AMEternal rest grant unto him O Lord,
And let perpetual light shine upon him,
May he rest in peace.
Amen.
He's just dead. He ceased to exist. No light, perpetual otherwise. No rest, no peace.
Quote from: dom on April 21, 2025, 01:00:35 PMSmall steps Matt!
Yes, in this case a sign of chronic infirmity.
Have the catechisms made steps in tandem? Will they? Nope.
As a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match. My maternal grandfather once suggested to my mother that perhaps my sister and me should adopt his surname rather than our own, to avoid job seeking difficulties as adults. We would then just have to provide different school names to even things up further. We declined his suggestion.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match. My maternal grandfather once suggested to my mother that perhaps my sister and me should adopt his surname rather than our own, to avoid job seeking difficulties as adults. We would then just have to provide different school names to even things up further. We declined his suggestion.
I was born into a Catholic family but my mother quickly decided she did not want a childhood for me like she had. I was baptized, yes, and that is where it ended. I have been free to make my own choices and chose not to join any sort of church or religious institute.
As I progress in age (and life), I have been strengthened in my belief (as an atheïst) but - all jokes aside - would never deny anyone else theirs. There is one condition, no one shall try and impose their beliefs on me either. Some have tried, and than I am not mild in my response.
Sort of an 'ask and you shall receive' type of thing.
Quote from: Thenop on April 21, 2025, 09:02:10 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match. My maternal grandfather once suggested to my mother that perhaps my sister and me should adopt his surname rather than our own, to avoid job seeking difficulties as adults. We would then just have to provide different school names to even things up further. We declined his suggestion.
I was born into a Catholic family but my mother quickly decided she did not want a childhood for me like she had. I was baptized, yes, and that is where it ended. I have been free to make my own choices and chose not to join any sort of church or religious institute.
As I progress in age (and life), I have been strengthened in my belief (as an atheïst) but - all jokes aside - would never deny anyone else theirs. There is one condition, no one shall try and impose their beliefs on me either. Some have tried, and than I am not mild in my response.
Sort of an 'ask and you shall receive' type of thing.
Exactly as it should be.
It's why the lyrics of Freewill resonate so strongly within me, as do so many of Neil's other lyrics. I strangely find the more atheistic of his works the most moving as they reach me in a place other songwriters fail to find. We can be spiritual beings in many ways if that's what we choose.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match. My maternal grandfather once suggested to my mother that perhaps my sister and me should adopt his surname rather than our own, to avoid job seeking difficulties as adults. We would then just have to provide different school names to even things up further. We declined his suggestion.
Thankfully England is a much more civilised country ;) Although in the 1940s my mum chose to attend the local state primary school rather than the local RC Primary as her older siblings used to run the gauntlet of the locals throwing things ranging from fruit to half bricks when they went to school. Funnily enough though, the headmistress of the state school was an Irish Catholic.
And young Matt2112 could still bring about seismic change to the Catholic church as any male baptised a Catholic can be considered for the Papacy. Of course there is the caveat of "within reason" but you never know...
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on April 21, 2025, 09:58:48 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match. My maternal grandfather once suggested to my mother that perhaps my sister and me should adopt his surname rather than our own, to avoid job seeking difficulties as adults. We would then just have to provide different school names to even things up further. We declined his suggestion.
Thankfully England is a much more civilised country ;) Although in the 1940s my mum chose to attend the local state primary school rather than the local RC Primary as her older siblings used to run the gauntlet of the locals throwing things ranging from fruit to half bricks when they went to school. Funnily enough though, the headmistress of the state school was an Irish Catholic.
And young Matt2112 could still bring about seismic change to the Catholic church as any male baptised a Catholic can be considered for the Papacy. Of course there is the caveat of "within reason" but you never know...
He does have a great command of many compelling words derived from Latin. ;D
My mum took to the Catholic church late meaning that I wasn't baptised til I was 7. As a result I didn't go to a Catholic primary school and had to go to catechism classes every Saturday morning - that was a pain.
My faith wained as time went on and although I was married in a Catholic church (Louise is an Irish Catholic) and both kids went to Catholic schools (quite difficult not to in Ireland) I really don't believe any more. You'll only find me in church for funerals and weddings.
Sometimes it's comforting to think that the people I'm saying goodbye to at those funerals are continuing to exist in some way in celestial light I realise it's pretty far fetched. Would be nice though.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.
Public figures attract derogatory comments all the time; I have no doubt that all of the comments here are sincere, thoughftul expressions of perfectly legitimate opinions. I certainly see my own remarks in that light. It's disingenuous IMO to compare these heartfelt articulations on the part of the rational to graffiti or football chants.
I think the problem is that religious folks expect an exemption from criticism, because they've often had it. Entitlement, in other words. Privilege. In a more enlightened society, the delusional woman I heard on the radio this morning banging on about the eternal love of Christ and salvation would have been interrupted by the presenter with an "excuse me .. that's absolute nonsense".
Quote from: Slim on April 22, 2025, 12:36:21 AMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.
Public figures attract derogatory comments all the time; I have no doubt that all of the comments here are sincere, thoughftul expressions of perfectly legitimate opinions. I certainly see my own remarks in that light. It's disingenuous IMO to compare these heartfelt articulations on the part of the rational to graffiti or football chants.
I think the problem is that religious folks expect an exemption from criticism, because they've often had it. Entitlement, in other words. Privilege. In a more enlightened society, the delusional woman I heard on the radio this morning banging on about the eternal love of Christ and salvation would have been interrupted by the presenter with an "excuse me .. that's absolute nonsense".
I totally respect your views and those of others on here, James, and I am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread. You're also quite correct in stating that certain religious areas are exempt from criticism. I'm probably more prickly than most when the subject arises as I've more been subject to discrimination rather than exemption, but I understand the variables at play (or fault) in my case. Like anyone else of faith I've battled with it internally over the years but I still have a love for it with all its many faults and difficulties. It's a place of solace and support for me and luckily I found just five words in scripture which made an immense difference to me. However, I'll keep those to myself in case Nop reads this.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.
Well in those latter cases, they are most likely the acts of those of a different and mutually exclusionary and mutually blasphemous sect of Christianity, where people are being directly attacked, rather than when
ideas are robustly scrutinised and criticised regardless of the identity of the holder, as in this thread.
And do you not think it ironic that by far the most derogatory comment in this thread has been lifted straight from the Catholic Church's own catechisms?
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 22, 2025, 01:37:44 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.
Well in those latter cases, they are most likely the acts of those of a different and mutually exclusionary and mutually blasphemous sect of Christianity, where people are being directly attacked, rather than when ideas are robustly scrutinised and criticised regardless of the identity of the holder, as in this thread.
And do you not think it ironic that by far the most derogatory comment in this thread has been lifted straight from the Catholic Church's own catechisms?
You'd need to enlighten me, Matt. I've never been chapter and verse on catechism. Strangely, it's not an area of the faith I was exposed to greatly, despite attending Catholic primary and sesecondary schools. The latter run by Jesuits.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 22, 2025, 12:12:18 PMI am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread.
Thanks. I'm sure Pope Francis himself would appreciate a touch of light heartedness. I have no great problem with religion, unless - like Politics - it gets taken too seriously, that's when the trouble starts. As a kid we used to keep away from Catholic converts, they were way too serious.
I also remember down the Irish club they used to call the Bingo numbers in Latin so the Prods couldn't win.
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 22, 2025, 01:37:44 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMAs a Roman Catholic living in Glasgow I'm well used to derogatory comments (however sincerely heartfelt) about the Pope and my faith. It's somewhat strange though, to read these opinions online, rather than reading them daubed on walls of buildings, or shouted at individuals on the street or at a football match.
Well in those latter cases, they are most likely the acts of those of a different and mutually exclusionary and mutually blasphemous sect of Christianity, where people are being directly attacked, rather than when ideas are robustly scrutinised and criticised regardless of the identity of the holder, as in this thread.
And do you not think it ironic that by far the most derogatory comment in this thread has been lifted straight from the Catholic Church's own catechisms?
With you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 22, 2025, 12:12:18 PMI totally respect your views and those of others on here, James, and I am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread. You're also quite correct in stating that certain religious areas are exempt from criticism. I'm probably more prickly than most when the subject arises as I've more been subject to discrimination rather than exemption, but I understand the variables at play (or fault) in my case. Like anyone else of faith I've battled with it internally over the years but I still have a love for it with all its many faults and difficulties. It's a place of solace and support for me and luckily I found just five words in scripture which made an immense difference to me. However, I'll keep those to myself in case Nop reads this.
OK we'll ignore the nonsense about football matches and graffiti, then.
Quote from: Slim on April 22, 2025, 11:29:15 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 22, 2025, 12:12:18 PMI totally respect your views and those of others on here, James, and I am also grateful that Nick injected a lighthearted comment into a darkening thread. You're also quite correct in stating that certain religious areas are exempt from criticism. I'm probably more prickly than most when the subject arises as I've more been subject to discrimination rather than exemption, but I understand the variables at play (or fault) in my case. Like anyone else of faith I've battled with it internally over the years but I still have a love for it with all its many faults and difficulties. It's a place of solace and support for me and luckily I found just five words in scripture which made an immense difference to me. However, I'll keep those to myself in case Nop reads this.
OK we'll ignore the nonsense about football matches and graffiti, then.
Well, that's what the Scottish Government, the SFA and UEFA seem to do. Anything about race, gender or sensuality and they're all over it.
Edit: Forgot BBC Scotland.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMWith you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.
Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.
There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 23, 2025, 01:31:38 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMWith you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.
Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.
There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.
Thank you, Matt. Nearly wasted three years there. I've switched my focus to Puppetry Design & Performance. Three years to BA (Hons).
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 23, 2025, 02:56:00 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on April 23, 2025, 01:31:38 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMWith you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.
Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.
There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.
Thank you, Matt. Nearly wasted three years there. I've switched my focus to Puppetry Design & Performance. Three years to BA (Hons).
Time to resurrect Thunderbirds for a new generation
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 23, 2025, 01:31:38 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on April 21, 2025, 08:40:39 PMWith you now. I suppose dogma is just something that doesn't fit with most in this modern world. It's about one's own conscience and thought processes at the end of the day. Things change. They might change very rapidly under a new leadership or they may remain the same for decades, even centuries. If I'd studied theology I could express myself better. Missing out on a more academic adult life is a big regret.
Well as subjects to study go, I'd rank theology below astrology, because at least with the latter it's based on physically measurable elements and had the happy and glorious accident of giving rise to the science of astronomy.
There's no good reason to take theology with any seriousness at all - its premises are moot, its claims are unfalsifiable and anything can go; a complete waste of time and energy.
Not sure that astrology can match the art, music or achictecture of theology. Not so much these days of course but it was the main focus for these disciplines for centuries.
Quote from: dom on April 23, 2025, 03:29:01 PMNot sure that astrology can match the art, music or achictecture of theology. Not so much these days of course but it was the main focus for these disciplines for centuries.
I'd call the influence behind great creative and engineering achievements at least in part inspired by religious beliefs as examples of
piety as opposed to the related but distinct field of theology, so we may just be differing on a purely semantic point there. :)
You're right, of course Matt, if a little pedantic
Bells ringing here in Navan to announce the appointment of a new Pope. Quaint and touching to use such an old fashioned communication method!
An American pope? Fkn hell
Pope Bob I :)
Just hope he sticks it to the Tangerine Twerp.
He should get his own organisation's house in order before even thinking about spouting off about other countries' leaders.
But that ain't gonna happen is it.
To be honest I think I'd prefer the Tangerine Twerp to stick it to Brainless Bob.
It's so depressing that news events like this provide a platform for religious folks to spout their cross-eyed delusional insanity without any balance being provided by rational people.
Was listening to 5 Live this morning; credulous idiots spouting unsupportable, baseless supernatural claims about "God", Jesus etc for all the world as though they were established facts, without any pushback from the interviewer - or any commentary to counter this on behalf of the millions of people in this country who don't buy it.
It's one day, one event, it really doesn't matter that this belief system gets it's occasional day in the Sun without being attacked
Bit like a Royal Wedding. Let them have their day. There will be plenty of other occasions to question the value/validity of it
Quote from: dom on May 09, 2025, 04:54:37 PMIt's one day, one event, it really doesn't matter that this belief system gets it's occasional day in the Sun without being attacked
It really does matter, because it makes truth claims that are important, and unsupportable. An ethical society shouldn't give those a free pass. Ever.
I agree that the BBC's coverage in particular has resembled an obsequious, fawning and virtually uncritical style of live broadcasting that's the default for major Royal events.
Jorge Bergoglio has been replaced by a zealous missionary who has thought nothing of wandering into territories uninvited to shove a bible in their face - that's the RCC's idea of "building bridges" and that phrase is reported without scrutiny; this automatic deference to what is represented by barely 15% of the U.K. population is exasperating to say the least.
Well, to celebrate I'm opening a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape tonight - The New Pope's Castle, OK so maybe not quite, but better than Ocker winemaker Charles Meltons's tribute "Nine Popes"
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on May 09, 2025, 06:47:43 PMWell, to celebrate I'm opening a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape tonight - The New Pope's Castle, OK so maybe not quite, but better than Ocker winemaker Charles Meltons's tribute "Nine Popes"
Will you be singing "Sur Le Pont"?
Quote from: dom on May 09, 2025, 07:24:32 PMQuote from: Nickslikk2112 on May 09, 2025, 06:47:43 PMWell, to celebrate I'm opening a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape tonight - The New Pope's Castle, OK so maybe not quite, but better than Ocker winemaker Charles Meltons's tribute "Nine Popes"
Will you be singing "Sur Le Pont"?
After a bottle of Chateauneuf I'll be
sous le pont!