Battery fires happening everywhere, it seems:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-10/nsw-battery-fires-rise-nsw-stats-standards/104917372
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/17/us/evacuation-fire-power-plant-monterey-county/index.html
Monterey incident causes pollution
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-29/heavy-metals-found-in-monterey-estuary-after-moss-landing-lithium-battery-fire
I think we need to slow down until we make this technology a whole lot safer than it is at present.
I'd probably have my nimby hat on for this proposal too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyze0vnlqpo
Safety must be paramount, but petrol and diesel driven cars catch fire as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/3Y0sY2QV/ai-petrol.png)
https://pi.ai/
Every industry has disasters. Think of all the oil wells that have caught fire over the years.
Insurers expressing concern:
Widow suing Tesla for 'defective design':
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/widow-of-designer-who-died-in-fiery-tesla-crash-sues-automaker-claiming-car-had-defective-design/ar-AA1zjjGd#
Battery-powered truck company goes bust:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/feb/19/nikole-bankruptcy-protection
Moss Landing battery storage facility re-ignites:
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/moss-landing-lithium-battery-storage-vistra-monterey-county/
BMW battery car back pedal:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mini/360932/bmw-pauses-ev-production-plan-mini-oxford-plant-slow-electric-car-sales-blamed
:o
https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/24904641.port-glasgow-built-calmac-ferries-face-2-year-wait-new-batteries/
Another one yesterday:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/investigation-huge-fire-battery-recycling-31068626?service=responsive
Looks as though it may have been a bit damaging for the environment ;D
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/terrifying-footage-shows-huge-fireball-31064219?int_source=nba
Safety concerns are leading to expensive measures:
https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10430320
https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10428351
Comes after a Mercedes battery fire in an Incheon underground car park damaged around 1000 vehicles causing $2.57m worth of damage. What will be the impact on our insurance premiums of this flawed technology, I wonder?
We may well see a ban on parking EVs in some car parks due to the prohibitive cost of safety measures.
Quote from: David L on February 28, 2025, 09:55:50 AMSafety concerns are leading to expensive measures:
https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10430320
https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10428351
Comes after a Mercedes battery fire in an Incheon underground car park damaged around 1000 vehicles causing $2.57m worth of damage. What will be the impact on our insurance premiums of this flawed technology, I wonder?
We may well see a ban on parking EVs in some car parks due to the prohibitive cost of safety measures.
See http://betweenthewheels.net/index.php?topic=880.msg30301#msg30301
Also: https://internationalfireandsafetyjournal.com/research-highlights-lower-fire-risk-in-electric-cars-compared-to-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles/
They're less likely to catch fire than petrol cars.
(https://i.ibb.co/zWpYtQxM/evrisk.png)
Yes, less likely to catch fire, perhaps...........but when they do :o . Most ICE fires are contained under the bonnet and fairly easy to extinguish...and rarely explosive.
Italian police raid the premises of four major EV manufacturers over claims of misleading information:
https://www-bild-de.translate.goog/leben-wissen/auto/wegen-irrefuehrung-razzia-bei-tesla-vw-byd-und-stellantis-67bf2466d1e5ac3c115e47c8?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
It all seems to be going very wrong....very fast!
Quote from: David L on February 28, 2025, 11:12:45 AMYes, less likely to catch fire, perhaps...........but when they do :o . Most ICE fires are contained under the bonnet and fairly easy to extinguish...and rarely explosive.
But considerably more common evidently, and less easy to contain because of course the flammable material is liquid.
I vape and use 18650 batteries everyday and these batteries have to be respected. They can only ever be in one of 3 places - stored in a safe box, installed and in use or when charging (in the correct charger - not some Chinese tat). When these things go wrong, they really do go wild. I'm sure the videos of electric bikes/scooters suddenly shooting out flames have been seen by most but essentially the batteries in EVs are just basically lots and lots of 18650 or 21700 lithium batteries. This is a good video highlighting thermal runaway of Lithium batteries:
Quote from: Slim on March 04, 2025, 09:38:10 PMQuote from: David L on February 28, 2025, 11:12:45 AMYes, less likely to catch fire, perhaps...........but when they do :o . Most ICE fires are contained under the bonnet and fairly easy to extinguish...and rarely explosive.
But considerably more common evidently, and less easy to contain because of course the flammable material is liquid.
;D
" The temperatures involved and the sparks generated cause a fire, further fuelled by the vented gases as the battery cells decompose further, resulting in rapid fire spread. This process happens far more quickly than in any other type of fire."
https://www.britsafe.org/safety-management/2024/lithium-ion-batteries-a-growing-fire-risk
Nonetheless the dramatically lower incidence of having a fire in the first place makes it a silly point.
Quote from: Slim on March 05, 2025, 12:32:54 AMNonetheless the dramatically lower incidence of having a fire in the first place makes it a silly point.
I'll contact The British Safety Council later and let them know ;)
Quote from: David L on March 05, 2025, 09:36:22 AMQuote from: Slim on March 05, 2025, 12:32:54 AMNonetheless the dramatically lower incidence of having a fire in the first place makes it a silly point.
I'll contact The British Safety Council later and let them know ;)
Never heard of them, but I'm sure they're well aware already :)
Another Mercedes EV explodes, this time in Sheffield
Shocking petrol car fire in North Wales
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/dramatic-scenes-a55-petrol-station-31133379
Fortunately although the driver of the burnt-out car was shaken, he was unharmed
Not sure whether these isolated incidents actually mean anything. So I askee ChatGPT for the Netherlands how many cars with electric motors caught on fire, and how this measures up to cars with traditional engines. Note that E motorized cars include hybrid tech cars, so a combo of E motors, and a combustion engine.
The numbers for the Netherlands are clear: regular cars have a fire incident rate of 0,057%, E powered cars 0,0085%. So that is significantly lower. The perception that E powered cars are more fire sensitive is not supported by the statistics.
Quote from: Thenop on March 07, 2025, 06:30:03 PMNot sure whether these isolated incidents actually mean anything. So I askee ChatGPT for the Netherlands how many cars with electric motors caught on fire, and how this measures up to cars with traditional engines. Note that E motorized cars include hybrid tech cars, so a combo of E motors, and a combustion engine.
The numbers for the Netherlands are clear: regular cars have a fire incident rate of 0,057%, E powered cars 0,0085%. So that is significantly lower. The perception that E powered cars are more fire sensitive is not supported by the statistics.
I don't think the issue has ever been that EVs are more fire sensitive, tbf.
Quote from: Slim on March 05, 2025, 10:32:23 AMQuote from: David L on March 05, 2025, 09:36:22 AMQuote from: Slim on March 05, 2025, 12:32:54 AMNonetheless the dramatically lower incidence of having a fire in the first place makes it a silly point.
I'll contact The British Safety Council later and let them know ;)
Never heard of them, but I'm sure they're well aware already :)
FYI
The British Safety Council, a registered charity founded by James Tye in 1957, is one of the world's leading health and safety organisations alongside the likes of Institution of Occupational Safety and Health and International Institute of Risk & Safety Management. Wikipedia
CEO: Michael Robinson (1 Sept 2015–)
Founded: 1957
Headquarters: London
Thanks. I'm sure they're well aware of the relative risks then, assuming they know what they're doing.
In any case the purpose of this section of the site is for contributors to bring interesting or notable technology or science information to the attention of other readers, not to engage in culture warfare against environmentalism.
That said, users are perfectly welcome to wage keyboard warfare against eco-friendly practices should they wish but please start a thread for that purpose in General Chat or the Politics section, depending on content. I'm closing this thread now.